Then Balboa Ballroom, maybe, where he really started getting an audience, which is a very strange thing, that he was almost - he was planning to break up, and a turnaround, because that audience in Denver really liked him, and then later on, in California. But there were always bands coming through. It wasn't an isolated place, by no means. The way I heard, or met, Duke Ellington for the first time: he was playing in Stockton, and I went. Jimmy Blanton [sic: Blanton] had passed away. He was on the West Coast, and he needed a bass player. He hired Junior Raglin, who was a bass player I knew in [ ]. I surprisingly saw Junior Raglin on the stand, and I went backstage and said to Junior Raglin, "I'm surprised that you're working with Duke Ellington. " He explained everything. I said, "That's wonderful. " I told him how much I thought of Duke Ellington, the records I had from the '30s, like Warm Valley, Flaming Sword, Jack the Bear, which has that wonderful bass solo on it. He said, "You're an Duke Ellington fan. Would you like to meet Duke Ellington? " I said, "Oh yes. " He said, "He's right in this dressing room over here. Let me bring you over. " He knocked on the door and went in. I followed him. He introduced me. Duke Ellington looked up at me. I  couldn't open my mouth. I couldn't say a word. I said to myself, this is ridiculous. I've got to get out of here. So I left. I didn't say a word to him. Later on, he came into the club where I worked in San Francisco and said, "You belong - you should play in New York. You should come to New York. " I said, "I don't have any jobs there. " He said, "Let me see what I can do about it. " So he got me a job at the Hickory House, and my agent got me a job at Birdland on the same week. My agent - you better not cross him - was Joe Glaser - or he'd drop you, or worse. So I took the job at Birdland, but I'll always remember that Duke Ellington had been so outgoing with me, being encouraging. So the first time that I really talked with him - I was in awe of him and stayed my distance. We were on tour together. They put the sidemen in one big room and the leaders, Duke Ellington and I, in a separate room. That was the way they always handled the tour. I didn't know. I don't think I belong in the same room with Duke Ellington, but that's where I was assigned. So that's when I finally saw how the Duke Ellington lived, the great big trunks like you'd take on board a ship. They were like small closets. All his suits lined up and the neckties and shirts and shoes, and a dresser to dress him.