At this time, during the 50's, this was like early -- mid 50's, jazz, you didn't have jazz in  the schools. There were no jazz programs, no North Texas State, Berklee or any other. So  that was unheard of in those days. So we just played the regular school type things. We  played marches and played for football games and for auditorium, morning auditorium  and all that. We didn't play any -- we had no charts or jazz charts or any of that. But that  was fun, I mean that's all we had and it was fun doing that. It was fun playing. And I  really liked it, I mean this is what I wanted to do. And I remember there were some jazz  records around my house, but not a lot. It wasn't that my people were really jazz fans per se, but there were some things around the house and I liked that. And I did get interested in jazz and a little student at school told me about Charlie Parker. I'd never heard of him you know. And he said "you should really check this Charlie Parker out. " And I did. I went to a little candy shop in my neighborhood and on the juke box there was a Charlie Parker record, a little 45. And I think he was playing "Tico Tico," which is just a Brazilian Samba type song. And it just blew me away. I knew immediately that this is what I wanted to do. It made perfect sense to me. I didn't need to be nurtured or taught how to listen to this music. I mean it made perfect sense. And I remember, I was about fourteen, that to me, when I heard that, and I had no history of hearing a lot of jazz records, I had no concept of what's considered Bebop and modern jazz or any of that. It was like, well this is the way music should go. This is the way instrumentals or an instrumentalist, this is the way they should approach this. Automatically. I knew nothing.  I mean I felt that. And then I immediately said okay, well I've got to get these records.  And then I was told that well you know, this guy is a member of a group of musicians that play a certain genre of jazz music, a certain genre of jazz, and it's called Bebop, and there's a whole slew of these guys. There was like a school of them. So I said oh? That's what that is. So then I said okay, because I had no idea that Charlie Parker represented anything but he's a jazz musician. I knew nothing about schools and styles. And then I just zeroed in on that, and of course then you've got all the modern jazz people from that era. And then I was fortunate in that I just happened to live on the street that had a great jazz club, the best jazz club in Detroit, a local jazz club. And it was four or five blocks down the street. And when I found out that this type of music was played in clubs exclusively, then it was like oh -- and then I would go and listen. I was too young to get in, I would go listen. And at that time, this was like `56, `57, Miles Davis was in Detroit, this was during that period when Miles lived in Detroit for about two years. And he lived right in this neighborhood where I lived and where this club was, and I would see him every day in the afternoon, walking, going to the store or going about his business. And I remember seeing Miles Davis and I knew who he was. At this time I knew that oh, this is Miles Davis and he played with Charlie Parker and he's living here in Detroit. And it was just great. I mean the house band was Tommy Flanagan, Barry Harris, Elvin Jones, Miles Davis was working at that club. It was heaven.