He's very popular doing this. And anyway, Barry was into formulating a concept of teaching, way back then, this was in the late 50's, probably '58, '59. It was in a seminal form, but he was already thinking about how do you -- because I had sat in in the club, and I guess he figured this boy might have some kind of talent but he doesn't know what he's doing. And I didn't. I didn't know about theory harmony and I didn't know all these things that you should know and need to know. And he said well you know, come by my house one time and I'll show you some things. And he lived right around the corner as well. So my whole musical life, or the beginnings, were all set in place. And I started coming over to his house, and he showed me about scales and chords and how they function and why they are what they are and how they work and all that. And that was the beginning. And then I started studying. I studied privately for a while for about six months from a good saxophone teacher. So I had a good saxophone teacher that wasn't teaching jazz, he was teaching saxophone. Barry Harris was the jazz guy so I was getting that. And I realized that in order to play with that kind of virtuosity you have to really get into some studying for that. And so I did. And I got real serious about music then. I mean I started getting more serious in school in the band class. It was like okay, this is serious. And then that was it. I knew I wanted to do it, and I went about finding out -- I had a good teacher, Barry Harris, I studied with this real good saxophone teacher for a while, and then I studied with Barry for four or five years.