Well I started playing when I was 13, 14 years old, and I started playing or trying to play jazz. Okay so by the time I was 18 or 19, I don't know if I actually thought of it as being art. I don't know if I even though about art at all. Because I was too busy trying to just learn how to play, just the academics of playing it. And definitions and things, to some 18, 19 year old kid, is just like meaningless. You know I didn't think. Now, since then of course I think of it as art. And the older you get you start thinking about definitions and all that stuff. And by the time you're 35 years old you're into defining everything. But as a youngster, I never thought of it. I don't think I thought of classical music as an art.  Probably I thought only art was a picture. You know what I mean? And that's it. But now I mean, or just from a certain point say of a young man, I thought of it, you know you start thinking of the frame of reference this and that and all that. And yeah, I mean art is a broad, you could almost say anything is art. That's art right there what you're doing. So you know, when you think about it, I don't know. Art is almost anything that human beings do that actually alters, to some degree, whatever God or nature does. I mean everything in nature is already there. I mean there's sounds, there's some kind of music, you know there's birds singing, there's trees falling, there's wind blowing. Everything has a note. To us it sounds unorganized and maybe it is maybe it isn't. But the minute that it becomes organized or if we think so, by humans, then it's the beginning of art right there, along with the vanity. You can't have art without vanity of some sort.