Not particularly in big bands you can't. But I would say, this is my own opinion, as far as a jazz man, a soloist is concerned, you don't get a chance to perfect much in a big band, see, because you have to read music first thing. Because the big band plays arrangements.  It is not like a Dixieland band just playing whatever, you know. You have to know [inaudible] and when you do make your chorus you're limited. You may take 16 bars and then finish and things like that or 8 bars you know. So it don't develop that, not for that, the small combinations is where you develop to be a jazz artist. In small combos, you know? But not in big bands. To tell you the truth, big bands is hard. It's hard work.  Particularly if you can play solos because you're reading and playing the solo too. While the other guys that can't play solos just read, and you're playing the solos and reading and doing everything, see?