Oh she's a very fine bassist. Very fine bassist. She played with Elvin a couple of times when he'd come to town. And she's traveled to Japan and about. But it's improved some, but just like I mean for women, and then the gender thing and the race aspect, where Black women are concerned, we have two strikes, but it has improved, I'll say that.  You'll run across a guy sometimes that don't want you to play with them. A lady was asking me that. Her daughter was concerned because the guys wouldn't let her play. I said "well just keep practicing, and just get on up there and just play, push them out of the way. " If they don't want you to play you just play anyhow. And you always have the audience on your side. So just play. Practice and get good, and the more you play the better you'll be. So that's it. You have to get kind of -- you don't have to particularly be masculine but you have to be forceful.