Yeah, they're like garters. So they wanted to go on this Dixie thing. And I was like oh man, I was the only guy that -- well I was the only Black guy that was in the stage band. So I said well look, I went to the director, Mr. Russell, to the head of the music department. I said you know this is not really jazz what this guy's trying to do. And I don't even know this guy, but I think that we need a real jazz guy if we're going to have a jazz stage band. So I suggested that he maybe should interview Bobby Bradford and John Carter. But John Carter was already teaching and so was Bobby, he was teaching at Pasadena CC and at another college. And John Carter was teaching at another college in Carver. So Bobby came in. He did an interview, and you know Bobby Bradford is great. He's a great educator. So Bobby got the gig. He just retired last year. And it got to be well known that people would come from other schools to be in that stage band after Bobby had really got the program on the road. So I was always happy that I was responsible for making the petition to get the other guy fired, to get Bobby in place, so that we could actually have jazz at Pomona College. And now they're proud of it. They're proud of the fact that they had jazz. That was the beginning of jazz at Pomona College.