Well I thought that making gigs is one thing, you know twenty bucks a night and you  play your brains out and have a great time, but I wasn't sure that that's what I wanted to  do. And seeing what appeared to be a relatively stable financial environment as classical  orchestral playing, I said well I'll spend four years here and this is my last two weeks at  school I might as well find out what the deal is. And Leopold Stokowski, who was one of  the guest conductors of the Philharmonic when I was there, took me aside when he was  there for the one week, on the last day -- it was like a four week ... four day week. He  would conduct four days and play the concert that night. And that's how they brought in  some great conductors with this Eastman Philharmonic Orchestra. And he said he'd like  to have me with his orchestra down in Houston, but that he thought that the Board of  Directors weren't ready to have a Black person in the orchestra. And if this what they're  telling him, and he's a major conductor, and they were one of the major orchestras, I  mean, really. And he was blunt, he laid it right out. And to this day, if you look at the  major orchestras, they still haven't made a dent in the African American  music/musicians' scene. New York maybe has one, maybe Cleveland has one, Detroit  maybe has one, Chicago maybe has one maybe not. I mean the music hasn't -- they  haven't shared the musical wealth of people.