Well, let's see I'm trying to think had I been with Andy Kirk? No, I don't think so. But he needed a tenor, and he wasn't doing well, you know? And he was glad for me to be with his band. Then I worked with that band. But later then he went back to Benny Moten, [inaudible], Page, all of those guys, they went back with Benny, with Benny Moten. So then when Benny Moten died ... oh yeah, Walter Page, I don't want to leave him out, when Benny died, Basie was the one that took over the band, then he sent and got me to join him again. So and that's when I went back and worked with him I guess about twelve or thirteen years off and on.