I studied with my father first. I did about a year with him. Then he said, "I can't teach you anything more. " So I went to Chicago to study with Roy Knapp. Remember Roy Knapp? He taught Gene Krupa. Buddy Rich took a few lessons with him too. When I went to study with Roy Knapp, he had me play something on the drum set. He said, "I can't teach you anything. You know it all already. " I said, "No, no, no. " So he started me  on xylophone, marimba, and vibes. He started me on harmony and theory. I branched off after Dad started me and I took over with Roy Knapp. By the time I was 13, 14, 15 years old, I was teaching in my dad's music store. That's where all these books came from. Most of my students were - I was 13. My students were 40 years old, 50 years old.