I was about 15, 16 years old. I'd take a train, go to Chicago. What I would do is take my lesson from Roy Knapp, stay over a couple of days, and of course catch Gene Krupa at the Panther Room at the Hotel Sherman, or go to the theater and see Cab Calloway, go back and see a little Cozy Cole, and catch all the - Jo Jones with Count Basie's band. Never missed that. But my early training in Moline - I was very fortunate that there was a nightclub there called the Rendezvous nightclub. The four players there were all from Kansas City. The leader was Specks Speckled Red. He came from Des Moines, Iowa. But Argo Percy Walker was from Kansas City - Jo Jones style. Steiner was the saxophone player. Bates was the bass player. Every Tuesday night they let me play the whole night with that quartet. That's where I learned what swing was all about. They taught me how to play for soloists, how to back up a band - big band, small band. Then with my dad, I played every night in the music store. He had an accordion band. I played drums with the accordion band. He had woodwinds on Wednesday night. Thursday night was a brass section. Friday night was a full band. I was there playing drums all the time. That was valuable training. That helped me so much, because by the time I got to be 18, 19 years old, I could play with any band.