Billy Gladstone came in to hear me play. I was with Tommy Dorsey's band at the hotel in New York. He said, "I'm going to make a snare drum for you. " I said,  "Great. " He brought it in for me to play. It had gut snares on the bottom. When I put that snare drum on, it was during a radio broadcast. The whole Tommy Dorsey band turned around and said, "What was that? " That was how good that snare drum sounded. For an average guy in a band, what do they know about a snare drum? They know it's a snare drum, and that's as far as it goes. But to hear something played, and turn around and say, What was that? " "Man, what a sound that was. " That was a Billy Gladstone snare drum. I also had a chance - Buddy Rich and I walked in Radio City Music Hall and the Roxy to see Billy Gladstone. He was standing in the pit. You could see him from his waist on up. He had his snare drum really high. He was making this sound. On stage is 40 gorgeous girls with tights. You focused on that enough. That's enough to drive you crazy. In the pit is Billy Gladstone playing these up-strokes and down-strokes. We went - Buddy Rich - both of us went from the 40 girls - zap - to the snare drummer. That's how powerful he was. We forgot about the 40 girls. What is this guy doing over here with that snare drum? That's what's important. That's how good he played. Great artist. In fact, he was one of the Four Horsemen. They called them the Four Horsemen: Billy Gladstone, Max Manne  Shelly Manne's father - the tympany player . . .