Well there was a lot of jazz around the schools you know, and they had some nice -- Vanderbilt University, a big band you know? And I started, I was around most of the good musicians that came, and so I met a guy that was going to Fisk. He was Professor Snead. And he played all the string instruments. He started me out on the ukulele. I started out on the ukulele. I was about ten years old. And I got to be pretty famous in and around town.