I was about 14, 15. But I wasn't . . . yeah, between 14 and 15. But I wasn't interested like I should have been, over enthused, because I had . . . I could have been a baker. Stepdaddy would take me with him and show me how to become a baker. That's how you learned. You didn't go to school. Somebody in the neighborhood or the vicinity would take you on. When you come up, they start you by wrapping bread. First thing they show you.