Paul went to New York with Luis Russell after King Oliver's band broke up. Red Allen went on a boat with Fate Marable. Made two trips, two or three trips. Musicians leaving town and going all the time. You heard . . . you never saw Jelly <span class="fullMatch" id="match_283">Jelly Morton</span>], but you heard of him. You never see Clarence Williams, but you heard of him. All people that were doing good, they show you examples. They would tell you. Spencer Williams writing all them things, Bourbon Street, recognized songwriter. Mahogany Hall Stomp and it was recorded with Louis's stuff. Louis was recording his  stuff. Clarence Williams wrote Careless Love. Not Careless Love. If I could be with you one hour tonight. Maybe not that. Something else. All that. You hear about people who were successful away. You also heard about who was in jail away, and all that. Yeah, if you was in the know. You had a lot to think about. And to get away, because they was always wanting you to go somewhere you could better your condition, because your ambitions was twarted here if you was in New Orleans, no matter what you did. If you had a paint job, you was in trouble as of today.