According to the arranger, what he has there. The sound of the arrangement. They had a hell of arrangers in them days, like Andy Gibson. Who else? Guitar player from Kansas City. One of the greatest. Played trombone with Lunceford and he also played guitar. He played more guitar than anybody at that time. Can't think of his name  Eddie Durham]. He died a few years ago. He was a bitch. He should have played guitar all the time, but he wanted to play trombone. He played trombone because he was a arranger, and he was noted for arranging voices of a brass section. Four horns, four trombones, and three trombones. He was a master of voicing those instruments, so they fit in nice. All that you get when you're with liberal-minded bandleaders who understand  . . They hire you because you're noted for something, and they left you alone. That's your department. Clarence Holiday played great guitar with Fletcher Henderson. I never got to know him well. Fletcher Henderson's band broke up. He hired Lawrence Lucie for a while, and then I never saw Clarence Holiday, Billie Holiday's father, no more. I don't know what happened to him. But he come out of Baltimore, and there were great banjo players and guitar players come out of Baltimore. Banjo Bernie. Him, Bernard Addison. Aw man, so many I recall. John Trueheart with Chick Webb. He was the master. Everybody went to hear him. They see him just chomp on that guitar with Chick Webb. You see all that, and you get a lesson from seeing how it's done while the people are working. You go home, and you think of that, and you figure it out, and you do that. When the people say, "Oh, man, he play just like John Trueheart. That's John Trueheart's thing. " You can see them talking, because you got that sound, and that's what you go by.