You know like jamming, and the guys would let you sit in if they are nice, you understand what I'm saying? But I mean you don't find that nowadays. A kid will come out of high school or maybe the Berklee or something like that, you know. But it's nothing like I mean in other words hearing it in the street, let's put it that way, I mean because that's where jazz comes from you know, from the street, you know. Because the blackboard can't talk. But I'm not putting the schools down at all, talking about hands-on experiences. It's just fabulous you know.