I don't think it was ever an uphill struggle for me, because I sort of had my indoctrination in working with Jimmy and boy Jimmy was so supportive and proud of me. And so when I started at The Embers as a trio and Ed and Don, they couldn't be nicer. I mean very seldom did I have a bad experience. I did have one guy at The Embers for a short time, I can't think of his name -- just as well -- and I had to fire him and boy having to fire somebody that just really, you know I could probably do it now with great aplomb but luckily I haven't had to. But I never had a real problem there. The only problems, or not problem, but things would be like I remember the first review I had from Leonard Feather was "she has three strikes against her: she's English, White and a woman." And I don't know it didn't bother me that much. I don't remember being too upset about that. And if there were things it'd probably be from the audience like "oh you play good for a girl," or "you sound just like a man." I mean you don't hear those things anymore. And I mean there were a lot of women on the scene: Mary Lou Williams, Barbara Carroll, people I'd heard before I got there -- Hazel Scott, Lil Harden. I never felt that the women were in such bad shape I guess. They went ahead and they had consciousness raising and I remember talking to Barbara about this, and she said "well I didn't know it was a thing, we've just been playing and doing our thing right along." And I never had to feel that things were tough. I never did.